So, I caught my first fish in the wide ocean of supernatural-fun-times! I won't use his full name here out of respect, but here is John's response to my First Letter of Leclair to the Preachers of Christ in Halifax, with my Red Lettered annotations. Enjoy!
First let me thank you for your candid and sincere
questioning of our ARE YOU SAVED? Gospel campaign. We encourage dialogue and
are certainly not "indifferent or casual" in our approach to discussing and dealing with the hard questions, nor would we "hide behind
billboards" as you may have thought per your correspondence. I did not accuse him directly of being casually indifferent, I simply stated that I sincerely hoped he and those of his campaign were not. I've experienced some very silly evangelicals...pretty well all of them. Surprisingly and thankfully, John was willing to engage in this dialogue!...Even if he is still silly regardless. If that were the case we certainly would not be out
on the streets with a PA system preaching the Gospel publicly nor would we be inviting
one on one discussions regarding the Gospel, which by the way is defined as "Christ died for our sins was buried and rose again the third day" I Cor 15V3. That is the way the Gospel is defined? I thought Gospel
was defined as ‘ultimate truth’?
We are a group of non denominational evangelical Christians that have a passionate desire to communicate the
Gospel of Jesus Christ to our city Halifax. We meet at the North St.
Gospel Hall on Oxford and North, in the north end of Halifax. We have a Gospel presentation
each Sunday evening at 7 pm to which you would be most welcome to attend. I may very well attend one of the presentations of this non-denomination to hear, via their sermons, just what they're about, though I have a distinct feeling that John's response here is more than enough to discover the same thing. That being said, I wonder, what could be the difference between this evengelical group and any other denomination that claims to know in what way god has and continues to rape, pillage, and 'purify' us; presumably for nothing more than his amusement?
So, you have asked some good questions. You had said,
"I need to know how we could possibly be saved if we are
condemned from birth?" We make this rash statement based on the very
clear teaching of the Bible, confirmed by what we see in our own deepest heart
of hearts and natural bend in our life. SO…the
teachings of the Bible are clear? They seem rather contradictory to me. And so
the convoluted teachings of the Bible are confirmed to you by the feeling you
have in your heart? This sounds nice and romantic...but ultimately silly. If this were a Monty Python sketch, I would stop it for being too silly. The entire human race, after Adam, the first man,
were born in a fallen condition and come into the world as sinners.
Read Romans 5 Verse 12. "Wherefore (Therefore...not wherefore. Wherefore means 'why'. Juliet isn't asking where Romeo is, she's asking why he's named that...the rose smelling so sweet and such? Yeah...therefore...) as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world..." Romans 5 V 18 - "by the offense of one ALL men (mankind) came into condemnation... I thought Eve was the first person in the garden to give in to temptation, so why is it because of Adam that we are condemned? And why, because of one man’s actions are we all condemned? We're sailing on the giant ship Eternity in the vast Sea of Nothingness and Adam says "Sorry guys, I may have popped a little hole in the hull...can't quite fix it...but hey, it'll take thousands of years before we're completely sunk." verse 19 goes on to say that " by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by the obedience of one (Jesus) many were made righteous." Many may have been made righteous, but not saved. So we are all condemned by the actions of one man, but not saved by the actions of another. Why am I paying for something someone else did? That’s like trying me for war crimes because Genghis Khan was an asshole.
In the Old Testament there is the historical account of God creating Adam and Eve and placing them in the Garden and giving them full and free access to all of God's beautiful creation along with a FREEWILL (Yeah, free will. Of course we have free will, we have no choice.) and gave them only one command that if they ate of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden death would come to them. I'm sorry, but how incredibly sad is it that the one tree called 'the tree of knowledge' is the one tree in the wole garden that is forbidden...this would be the first clue to me that God was up to something. You can read about this is Genesis chapter 3. They were not created sinners. They were created innocent. They had a God consciousness and a freewill. Satan, the enemy of God by pride and rebellion came to Eve and tempted her, she ate the fruit and gave it to Adam and God removed them from the garden, sin entered the world and the entire human race was separated from God and each child born into the world thereafter was born with a nature pronned to sin rather than choose what is morally right. This does not mean we are incapable of doing right things, we are. However, there is a natural tendency to be attracted to what is evil and sinful in the sight of God. Historical account? Could you please direct me to other sources, aside from the Bible, from that same time period, to help establish a solid historical account? Many of us do not realize this until we are bound by sinful habits that we can't break.
King David, who was a man of God realized this when he had an affair with a beautiful women who was another man's wife and then tried to cover it up by having the man (Uriah) murdered on the battle field. (You can read about this in II Samuel Ch11. Then in Psalms 51 when he was repenting for his sins he told God that he realized that he was so sinful he was sinful at birth and from the very point of conception he had a sinful nature. So because a single man in a single book of the Bible claimed that he was sinful by nature it is therefore true? You sound as though you’ve read quite a bit of Thomas Hobbes, and I would think, as a Christian, you may be more inclined to read John Locke.
(Read this in Psalm 51 V 5) Ask yourself, if anyone had to teach you as a child how to lie? steal? curse with anger? or disobey your parents? or did this come naturally from instinct? I know where you’re getting at, but we are poor examples of that. We have been brought up into a world that happens to have these things. We are born with the ability to do them, but if we had no idea what they were, I don’t think we would do them/could do them. You may not have, but I learned about lying and stealing and cursing from church, and I also learned that the members of that church were, in many ways, the best examples of the types of people to lie, steal, and curse. I was taught about these things and how they worked; they did not come naturally from instinct: only eating and sex came that way for me.
If we are honest we will naturally do something that's wrong before we do something that's right if it means we can avoid pain, gain pleasure or get further ahead in life. We are all naturally selfish, confirming what the Bible teaches us that we are naturally born as sinners. I disagree, I believe we do the wrong thing first ‘naturally’ because we do not know any better from the start. I fall off my bike first because I’m not quite sure how to ride it. But the more I try, the better I am at riding. If I child is rough petting a cat the first time he pets a cat, it’s because he doesn’t know any better, but over time he will learn to become gentle. We do not need God to figure out what things do and don’t work in life. We have our natural, evolved critical faculties for this purpose.
You are right that the common expectation is that we will sin the rest of our lives. The more you live in sin the easier it becomes until a person becomes trapped by sinful habits, like drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality. Jesus said "Whosover commits sin is the servant (slave) of sin" (t'would seem to me, then, that Jesus is going about getting followers the wrong way. I mean...sin has a lot of servants.) John Ch 8 v 34. He also said that he is able to set people free from the bondage of sin by believing on him - John 8 v 36. In John Ch 3 V 18 it clearly states that everyone who does not "believe on the SON (Jesus) is condemned already. - This means all are born in condemnation. BUT, Jesus came into the world to bear that condemnation for all of us and provide payment to God, who is Holy for our sins. "He that believes on HIM (JESUS) is NOT CONDEMNED", because he hath believed on the name of the only begotten son of God who paid the price to release us from the bondage of our sins - John 3 V 18 So if we simply believe in Jesus, we are saved? You make it sound simple and then cloud it with difficulty because believing just isn’t enough apparently, but according to the Bible it is, but then, again in the Bible, it isn’t. Which is it? And I’m still not sure why God sent his son to pay this price. God sent his son so that he could have him killed…but he loves his son? And us? This reminds me of the story of Isaac, but with a morbid ending...pretty sure if you killed your son for me...I'm sure I would take issue with that for some reason or other.
Read Romans 5 Verse 12. "Wherefore (Therefore...not wherefore. Wherefore means 'why'. Juliet isn't asking where Romeo is, she's asking why he's named that...the rose smelling so sweet and such? Yeah...therefore...) as by one man (Adam) sin entered the world..." Romans 5 V 18 - "by the offense of one ALL men (mankind) came into condemnation... I thought Eve was the first person in the garden to give in to temptation, so why is it because of Adam that we are condemned? And why, because of one man’s actions are we all condemned? We're sailing on the giant ship Eternity in the vast Sea of Nothingness and Adam says "Sorry guys, I may have popped a little hole in the hull...can't quite fix it...but hey, it'll take thousands of years before we're completely sunk." verse 19 goes on to say that " by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so also by the obedience of one (Jesus) many were made righteous." Many may have been made righteous, but not saved. So we are all condemned by the actions of one man, but not saved by the actions of another. Why am I paying for something someone else did? That’s like trying me for war crimes because Genghis Khan was an asshole.
In the Old Testament there is the historical account of God creating Adam and Eve and placing them in the Garden and giving them full and free access to all of God's beautiful creation along with a FREEWILL (Yeah, free will. Of course we have free will, we have no choice.) and gave them only one command that if they ate of the fruit of the tree in the middle of the garden death would come to them. I'm sorry, but how incredibly sad is it that the one tree called 'the tree of knowledge' is the one tree in the wole garden that is forbidden...this would be the first clue to me that God was up to something. You can read about this is Genesis chapter 3. They were not created sinners. They were created innocent. They had a God consciousness and a freewill. Satan, the enemy of God by pride and rebellion came to Eve and tempted her, she ate the fruit and gave it to Adam and God removed them from the garden, sin entered the world and the entire human race was separated from God and each child born into the world thereafter was born with a nature pronned to sin rather than choose what is morally right. This does not mean we are incapable of doing right things, we are. However, there is a natural tendency to be attracted to what is evil and sinful in the sight of God. Historical account? Could you please direct me to other sources, aside from the Bible, from that same time period, to help establish a solid historical account? Many of us do not realize this until we are bound by sinful habits that we can't break.
King David, who was a man of God realized this when he had an affair with a beautiful women who was another man's wife and then tried to cover it up by having the man (Uriah) murdered on the battle field. (You can read about this in II Samuel Ch11. Then in Psalms 51 when he was repenting for his sins he told God that he realized that he was so sinful he was sinful at birth and from the very point of conception he had a sinful nature. So because a single man in a single book of the Bible claimed that he was sinful by nature it is therefore true? You sound as though you’ve read quite a bit of Thomas Hobbes, and I would think, as a Christian, you may be more inclined to read John Locke.
(Read this in Psalm 51 V 5) Ask yourself, if anyone had to teach you as a child how to lie? steal? curse with anger? or disobey your parents? or did this come naturally from instinct? I know where you’re getting at, but we are poor examples of that. We have been brought up into a world that happens to have these things. We are born with the ability to do them, but if we had no idea what they were, I don’t think we would do them/could do them. You may not have, but I learned about lying and stealing and cursing from church, and I also learned that the members of that church were, in many ways, the best examples of the types of people to lie, steal, and curse. I was taught about these things and how they worked; they did not come naturally from instinct: only eating and sex came that way for me.
If we are honest we will naturally do something that's wrong before we do something that's right if it means we can avoid pain, gain pleasure or get further ahead in life. We are all naturally selfish, confirming what the Bible teaches us that we are naturally born as sinners. I disagree, I believe we do the wrong thing first ‘naturally’ because we do not know any better from the start. I fall off my bike first because I’m not quite sure how to ride it. But the more I try, the better I am at riding. If I child is rough petting a cat the first time he pets a cat, it’s because he doesn’t know any better, but over time he will learn to become gentle. We do not need God to figure out what things do and don’t work in life. We have our natural, evolved critical faculties for this purpose.
You are right that the common expectation is that we will sin the rest of our lives. The more you live in sin the easier it becomes until a person becomes trapped by sinful habits, like drugs, alcohol, sexual immorality. Jesus said "Whosover commits sin is the servant (slave) of sin" (t'would seem to me, then, that Jesus is going about getting followers the wrong way. I mean...sin has a lot of servants.) John Ch 8 v 34. He also said that he is able to set people free from the bondage of sin by believing on him - John 8 v 36. In John Ch 3 V 18 it clearly states that everyone who does not "believe on the SON (Jesus) is condemned already. - This means all are born in condemnation. BUT, Jesus came into the world to bear that condemnation for all of us and provide payment to God, who is Holy for our sins. "He that believes on HIM (JESUS) is NOT CONDEMNED", because he hath believed on the name of the only begotten son of God who paid the price to release us from the bondage of our sins - John 3 V 18 So if we simply believe in Jesus, we are saved? You make it sound simple and then cloud it with difficulty because believing just isn’t enough apparently, but according to the Bible it is, but then, again in the Bible, it isn’t. Which is it? And I’m still not sure why God sent his son to pay this price. God sent his son so that he could have him killed…but he loves his son? And us? This reminds me of the story of Isaac, but with a morbid ending...pretty sure if you killed your son for me...I'm sure I would take issue with that for some reason or other.
You asked about "sexual immorality". God is not
against sexual pleasure. To the contrary, he made it (well, that's not clear because God apparently made everything and he's against a lot of it. It's hard to decipher just what is right. I'm so glad we have people on the ground telling us all just what it is that God wants.) and designed it to be the
most enjoyable pleasure that can be had between a man and a women within
marriage. Sex is the ultimate sharing of emotional and physical
intimacy and oneness expressing purity and unity between one man and one women
who have pledged their lives to live together in harmony for their entire
life. It is also designed by God for procreation. This can not happen
between a man and a man or a women and a women. The Bible teaches that while
sex is pure within a marriage union but outside of it and
homosexuality is immoral and perverted. So if two
people of the same sex fall in love (the love given them by God) they are not
allowed to express it in any way? And most importantly not in the ultimate
sharing of emotional and physical intimacy and oneness expressing purity and
unity through sex? I thought love was a beautiful thing, but it seems to me
that you’re saying it can only be beautiful if it’s between a man and woman...I'm not sure that I want to read any further than your incredibly silly statement. You can read about this in I Cor 6, and in Hebrews 13 v 4.
I'm glad that you recognize there is no doubt that
"every one on the face of this planet will commit this list of
sins" mentioned on the ARE YOU SAVED CARD? ...and by the way we are no
different that anyone else and we have also committed these sins. This
actually confirms the point that we are all born with a sinful
nature. It doesn't actually confirm anything, but it's nice that you think so. You had asked the question, "If our sins will
destroy our lives and take us to Hell why would God (who loves us so much)
give us sin and make it so readily available and enticing to us? GREAT
QUESTION ! If you have a Bible you need to read James Ch 1 v 13 to v 15 -
" LET NO MAN SAY WHEN HE IS TEMPTED I AM TEMPTED OF GOD, for God
can not be tempted of evil , neither tempts he any man; but every man is
tempted when he is drawn away of HIS OWN LUST (THIS IS EVIDENCE OF A SINFUL
NATURE THAT CAME FROM BIRTH) and enticed. Then when lust has
conceived it brings forth sin and sin when it is finished brings death." But God created this sin! Absolutely, in every way possible,
he is responsible for all sin, and all terror in this universe, according to
the teachings of the Bible.According to his own bloody (I use the word advisedly) word, he's a terror; he's the bane of this world and everything he apparently created on it.
Clearly Anthony, God did not make us this way
(sinful). We as human beings represented by Adam (Again,
not Eve? I can't help but feel a sexist undertone here.) chose to sin and
rebel against God. God didn't create the problem of sin, we did. But God gave us free will. And we have no choice but to have
free will because the ‘boss’ gave it to us, so in what way is it free? If God
created everything and knows everything, even how the whole story will end,
then nothing we do, is not justified by God. He is the one responsible for us
all. He has a plan for us all, I hear. God LOVES us enough to
create a SOLUTION for our sin. Romans 5 v 6 to 8 " When we were
without strength (weak and bound by sinful habits and unable to SAVE
ourselves)...V 8 "God demonstrated His love toward us , that while we were
yet sinners Christ (Jesus) died for us." He could
have created a simpler solution than murdering his son for us. He simply
could have taken away sin. If you murdered your son for me, I would not think
that you loved me. I would think that you were deranged.
God did not impose an evil curse upon the world. Adam and
Eve brought us all into sin and a torrent of evil followed because of sin. Sin created by whom? God has compassion and
infinite love to the world of humanity and it breaks his heart as much as it
does ours, and infinitely more to see the suffering of children dieing with
cancer, and natural disasters (that you referred to) that happen to this world
because of sin. If God infinitely loves us, then he
will stop all of these things from happening, no? You know it breaks his heart?
Is this a quote from the Bible? Or has he told you this? How can you claim to
know the mind and heart of a being that is so far beyond us? The Bible, after
all, was not written by God, but this is your only historical record, that I’m
aware of, to testify to God’s magnificence.
It sounds like your concept of God is that of Richard
Dawkin's as you have quoted; if that's the case,....that's very sad. Yes, logic can be sad can't it?
This is not the GOD that I know, nor the God that loves this world
unconditionally (including you) and wants to resue all of us from the
penalty and judgment of sin. Again, if he wants to
rescue us from the penalty and judgment of sin, he simply can. Because
God is HOLY and RIGHTEOUS he must punish sin, but HIS infinite GRACE and
MERCY as well as HIS EVERLASTING LOVE to all humanity moved him to give His
ONLY son to die for you and I and everyone else. (See John 3 v 16). But even after his son’s death, it still made no difference
apparently. He loved us so much that he killed his son for us to keep sinning
the way we always have. Doesn’t sound like love. It’s hard not to agree with
Dawkins on this, because the God you apparently know, according to the Bible,
is all of the things that Dawkins states.
The Bible makes it clear that we are all individually accountable for our own sins, not Adam's. And yes you are right because it may seem unfair if its so easy to sin, and so natural, then we feel we are at an unfair advantage when it comes to being held responsible for our sins. Yet GOD is reaching out to you and in mercy is able, ready and willing to forgive all your sins. If you read Romans 3 v 26 "He is just and the JUSTIFIER of EVERYONE who believes in Jesus. The reason being is although he is holy he can now forgive sins because of the infinite price that his son Jesus Christ paid on the cross when he died for our sins. He could forgive sins without murdering his son, for goodness’ sake. Why do you have to keep bringing up this murder thing? You're just making a rod for your own back here.
You had mentioned how "absolutely ludicrous it sounds that God sent his son to die for our sins:, and you mentioned "sins He created in the first place" - NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! Yes! Absolutely so! Seriously! Totally! Utterly! He didn't create our sins in the first place. He didn't make you sin in your life, nor did he make me. I CHOSE TO SIN AGAINST HIM, so did you. HE IS GOD. It's HIS STANDARD of righteousness that we can't keep. He is reaching out to us and offering GRACE (undeserved kindness - he's saying Anthony, if you come to me and acknowledge your sins I will forgive you" ...You mean...I can be saved too!? Oh my goodness, what am I doing with my life? Oh right, reason and such. Logic and all of the things that fit into that group that somehow leave supernatural trash like this in the bin. - Read Isaiah ch 1 V 18 "Come let us reason says the LORD, - though your sins are awful dark (paraphrase) - I will wash them away"- All your guilt, all your past can be forgiven because Jesus Christ paid ONE INFINITE PRICE WHEN HE DIED FOR SINNERS at the cross, and rose again. Have you come to him? have you acknowledged you sins? So he didn’t create sin? We created sin? But who created us and gave us the capacity to sin? I’m sure you’d say it was God who created us. Did the Devil make us sin? Tempt us to do wrong? How did the Devil come into existence? Did he sort of just pop into existence with God and the rest of the angels? I don’t think that’s what you’d say. I’m inclined to think that you believe that God created the whole universe. Does Lucifer exist outside of the universe? Did he create himself like God apparently did? If not, then God created Lucifer, and if Lucifer created sin, then God created sin, because God knows everything, does he not? So he would know, long before he created anything, just what would happen, how it would happen, and his role in everything happening. I simply can’t get past this point. It’s not enough to say God loves us infinitely and then, in the same breath, say that he murdered his only son for us! Have I made my point yet!?
The Bible makes it clear that we are all individually accountable for our own sins, not Adam's. And yes you are right because it may seem unfair if its so easy to sin, and so natural, then we feel we are at an unfair advantage when it comes to being held responsible for our sins. Yet GOD is reaching out to you and in mercy is able, ready and willing to forgive all your sins. If you read Romans 3 v 26 "He is just and the JUSTIFIER of EVERYONE who believes in Jesus. The reason being is although he is holy he can now forgive sins because of the infinite price that his son Jesus Christ paid on the cross when he died for our sins. He could forgive sins without murdering his son, for goodness’ sake. Why do you have to keep bringing up this murder thing? You're just making a rod for your own back here.
You had mentioned how "absolutely ludicrous it sounds that God sent his son to die for our sins:, and you mentioned "sins He created in the first place" - NO! ABSOLUTELY NOT! Yes! Absolutely so! Seriously! Totally! Utterly! He didn't create our sins in the first place. He didn't make you sin in your life, nor did he make me. I CHOSE TO SIN AGAINST HIM, so did you. HE IS GOD. It's HIS STANDARD of righteousness that we can't keep. He is reaching out to us and offering GRACE (undeserved kindness - he's saying Anthony, if you come to me and acknowledge your sins I will forgive you" ...You mean...I can be saved too!? Oh my goodness, what am I doing with my life? Oh right, reason and such. Logic and all of the things that fit into that group that somehow leave supernatural trash like this in the bin. - Read Isaiah ch 1 V 18 "Come let us reason says the LORD, - though your sins are awful dark (paraphrase) - I will wash them away"- All your guilt, all your past can be forgiven because Jesus Christ paid ONE INFINITE PRICE WHEN HE DIED FOR SINNERS at the cross, and rose again. Have you come to him? have you acknowledged you sins? So he didn’t create sin? We created sin? But who created us and gave us the capacity to sin? I’m sure you’d say it was God who created us. Did the Devil make us sin? Tempt us to do wrong? How did the Devil come into existence? Did he sort of just pop into existence with God and the rest of the angels? I don’t think that’s what you’d say. I’m inclined to think that you believe that God created the whole universe. Does Lucifer exist outside of the universe? Did he create himself like God apparently did? If not, then God created Lucifer, and if Lucifer created sin, then God created sin, because God knows everything, does he not? So he would know, long before he created anything, just what would happen, how it would happen, and his role in everything happening. I simply can’t get past this point. It’s not enough to say God loves us infinitely and then, in the same breath, say that he murdered his only son for us! Have I made my point yet!?
You seemed to have misunderstood that because Jesus
died for our sins (sins of humanity) this means we are all saved. NO! to
the contrary, (clearly) WE ARE NOT ALL AUTOMATICALLY SAVED. There is a personal
obligation and responsibility for each individual to REPENT, which means change
your mind about what you think of God, what you think of sin, and what you
think is fare. We don't get to make the rules. God is our creator and we
are his creatures. He commands ALL MEN to REPENT (Well, all men are certainly listening aren't they?) (Acts Ch 17 V 30)
Read Luke 13 V 5 "Except you repent you will perish". I, like you, will
perish one day, like all living things. It’s not through God though that we will live
in eternity, but through the atoms that make up our physical composition. We will
live in eternity through the bits of energy that we are, but we will not sit in
the clouds behind the pearly gates, living in eternal worship of the ultimate celestial asshole, God.
Being SAVED means that you have acknowledged you are a
sinner in the sight of God, you are willing to repent of going your
own direction in life and are accepting Jesus Christ as your personal
SAVIOUR (who you believe died for you on the cross and rose again, as evidence
that he is the ETERNAL SON OF GOD) and you are willing to make him LORD of your
life and you accept all of this on the basis of what the Bible says, by
faith. Nothing else will SAVE your soul from Hell. How
do you know nothing else will save us? And how do you know that Jesus did this? How do you know that we need saving?
Or that God simply played us for fools by killing his son and bringing him back
three days later? From what I’ve heard so far, your only evidence of this is a
shady ‘historical’ account written by over forty authors, all of whom, I’m sure
were not named God.
As to your mention of infants that die in childbirth
and I would add abortions, which is outright murder; But
apparently God is ok with the murdering of children. The only issue we have is
that we can’t bring them back three days later. you are right they are
sinners by nature But God is JUST and RIGHTEOUS, it would be unfair
and unrighteous to send them to Hell because they never had opportunity to
reason, be accountable or understand. You’ve already
said to me that I cannot decide what is fair as it is up to God and we must
play by his rules. So where did you learn that all children and infants and
mentally handicapped people will be saved simply because God is fair? How do
you know his mind so well from just the Bible? Is there a verse that states “I
will save infants, young children, and mentally handicapped people, simply
because they cannot understand why I murdered my son for them.”?
For all such, including mentally handicapped and young children God has made provision for them in the death and resurrection of Christ. The Judge of all the earth will do right. I believe they will not be held accountable. But you and I are because of our understanding, our intellelligence and our free will to rationaize and choose. So does this mean that you also believe that a teenager on some remote island who was brought up Islamic and was never off the island and never received visits from Christian missionaries and never had any way of hearing the good news of Christ would also be saved by god because of his fairness? Same with the adults and elders and infants on this island, none of whom have ever been given the ability to experience God’s grace? Are they saved also? Oh and let's not forget to specify, since there seems to be an incredible issues with this, will the women on that island be saved also?
For all such, including mentally handicapped and young children God has made provision for them in the death and resurrection of Christ. The Judge of all the earth will do right. I believe they will not be held accountable. But you and I are because of our understanding, our intellelligence and our free will to rationaize and choose. So does this mean that you also believe that a teenager on some remote island who was brought up Islamic and was never off the island and never received visits from Christian missionaries and never had any way of hearing the good news of Christ would also be saved by god because of his fairness? Same with the adults and elders and infants on this island, none of whom have ever been given the ability to experience God’s grace? Are they saved also? Oh and let's not forget to specify, since there seems to be an incredible issues with this, will the women on that island be saved also?
I sincerely hope this answers some of your very good
questions.
And I say may the peace of God, and love of the Lord Jesus
become yours by faith
I've linked my full, offical, response to John below. It was far too long to put here, and annotations are fun. I hope you enjoy both. Feel free to throw any questions at me you may have. Trust me, I will answer them.
Second Letter of Leclair to the Preachers of Christ in Halifax
I've linked my full, offical, response to John below. It was far too long to put here, and annotations are fun. I hope you enjoy both. Feel free to throw any questions at me you may have. Trust me, I will answer them.
Second Letter of Leclair to the Preachers of Christ in Halifax
No comments:
Post a Comment